July 17 2012

Description:

TALKS FROM MORNING SATSANG ON JULY 17 2012 IN MADURAI, INDIA In today’s morning satsang, Paramahamsa Nithyananda (Swamiji) answers a question regarding religious conversion. Paramahamsa declares that conversion is actually intentional, applied violence. When a person encounters a spiritual truth through direct experience, his inner space evolves and undergoes transformation. At that point he may choose to adopt the formal religion associated with the truth he has discovered and embrace it as a devotional practice. This is the only legitimate form of conversion. All other avenues – outside pressure or bribery (feeding the poor in order to convert them) - are simply a veil for aggression.

Tags:

Paramahamsa Nithyananda, answer, question, religion, violence, encounter, spiritual, truth, experience, evolve, transformation, choose, embrace, bribery, feed, poor, aggression.

Transcript:

Religious conversion is conscious Crime

Q&A with Paramahamsa Nithyananda

Today is, as per the solar calendar, new month in the Vedic tradition. So from today, the Indian villages, in Bengal, in UP, many of the Indian states, even in Madhya Pradesh, all the states which follow the solar calendar, all those states, this whole month they will drink Neem juice and cleaning the stomach. They will live on liquid diet and our Nirahar Samyama is matching with it. We have not planned. Automatically it has happened.

All the states which follow the solar calendar - See Andhra and Karnataka follow Lunar calendar. Tamilnadu, Kerala, UP, Madhya Pradesh, West Bengal, Gujarat – all these states follow Solar calendar. So as per the Solar calendar, today is the new month beginning. In the whole 12 months, this one month they will be with the liquid diet. It is almost like a Ramzan. From this tradition only they started the Ramzan. One thing in Ramzan is they eat after sunset. Here they don’t eat even after sunset. The whole month they live on liquid diet. Drinking Neem juice in the morning. They worship mother. The whole West Bengal, this is the only month they eat less sweet, because they don’t eat. Indian villages these traditions were there. I don’t know whether now in the cities it is not there . But still in the Indian villages these 5-6 states which follow the solar calendar they all do this observation. They go to the local deity of that village. So this is the offering given to the deities. Let’s start the Satsang.

Q: How does one stay faithful to his/her religion assuming they feel a deep connection and find truth in their religion, while currently maintaining a connection with the Guru. I will say the prayer in Hebrew before bed and then chant for the morning Pooja. Is there a contradiction here? Does the subtle sense of guilt only exist in the mind?

A: Don’t worry. There is no such thing as contradiction. Have everything. You will see automatically whatever needs to be dropped by itself. See, there should not be conversion. Conversion is a violence. I wanted to tell you all religious conversion is violence. Never ever anybody in my Sampradaya will practice religious conversion. No. No conversion!

In transformation you never have pain. Suddenly you will see some of your old faiths and beliefs have completely left you due to your new discovery. Then it is not conversion. It is transformation. So after transformation, you may / may not choose legally to adopt that new religion you discovered.

Please understand, it is a very subtle issue. This has to be handled with lot of sensitivity. Because I see so much of psychological violence, cultural invasion. As a Indian, born and brought-up in a village, I know the sufferings of religious conversion. Our poverty is being exploited. For the sake of bread and butter, people converting to different religion, I have seen. I have seen villages getting converted.

I have seen the cultural invasion happening and the psychological violence being done. So I tell you as a sufferer, victim of religious conversion, with tremendous sensitivity and love and compassion for humanity, I make this as a law for Nithyananda Sampradaya and all my devotees and disciples – “Thy shall not convert”. We will only spread, radiate transformation.

Understand I can tell you millions of stories, painful stories, where conversion is nothing to do with the religion. It is more to do with politics. It became a power-centric action not spiritual-centric action.

I tell you a small example. I used to have a Shiva deity from the young age. May be from the age of 8~9 till 22. And after I realized my Avataric mission, I stopped doing morning Pooja. I used to worship with a small deity which I used to carry wherever I go. Now after I became the successor of Madurai Adheenam, I have to start my every day morning with the worship. So from the Madurai Adheenam I have been given a Shiva Linga , which is a hereditary, traditional. Even to shift from my old Shiva Linga to new Shiva Linga, it was such a big difficult. I tell you when you relate and live with a deity, that deity has become part of your inner space. So now if you see, I will keep both Shiva Lingas. I am not able to give-up that old one. For an incarnation after realizing incarnation-hood, it is not change from one Sampradaya to another Sampradaya, it is change of one deity to another deity. Both are representation of same Shiva. Because, religion is your love affair. Understand, it is such a personal sweet experience.

I know among my own devotees who consider me as the mother, they do not want to see the masculine Kala Bairava form and some of my own disciples who connect with me more like a Kala Bairava, do not want to see Meenakshi Bhava Darshan. Religion is personal experience. It is deeper than any love or any love affair. Love affairs are only between minds. But Religion is between consciousness.

The very being, I tell you, if you forcibly ask somebody to eat certain food, change their dress, it is physical violence. If you forcibly ask somebody to think in certain pattern, it is mental violence. Without making the other person understand, if you pass any law and force it on the people, it is emotional violence. Religious conversion is conscious violence. Most powerful violence on the planet earth. That is why all consciousness based religions; Vedic tradition, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Sufiism, none of us believe in conversion.

It’ s my vision - One day I will surely gather all these traditions which do not believe in conversion.  Even Greek Orthodox Church does not believe in conversion.  The traditions which do not believe in conversion, we will all gather together and declare to the whole humanity “No conversion, only transformation”, as a law.  Let us not be violent to the human civilization. There are enough of people who are violent to human civilization who are greedy of money.  Money mongers keep humanity in poverty, power mongers politicians keep humanity in fear. There are so many groups, vested interest groups, vomiting enough of venom and violence on humanity.  We religious leaders, spiritual leaders should stop this concept of conversion. 

People ask me, “Swamiji, you are the successor of Madurai Adheenam. Great saint who revived Madurai Adheenam, he himself converted people from Jainism and killed thousands of monks. I wanted to make it very clear, I do not believe this story.

First thing. He only transformed the king, Pandya king. Whoever had that transformation followed him. Second: Such a loving person like Gnanasambandar can never afford to kill people. May be it is a later interpolation. I don’t think there would have been any violence or killing in Thirugnanasambandar’s life. Such a great saint! Can’t afford to kill people. Surely he wouldn’t have done and if it was true – I can’t even say “if it was true”! I know. I have seen the inner space of Thirugnanasambandar. I live in that inner space. Gnanasambandar can’t afford to kill people. Such a great saint! May be some of these Jain monks have committed suicide by themselves or ran away. Anyhow, now I am making it very clear for my Sampradaya - Only transformation, No conversion! Let me make it very clear.

When the transformation happens you discover the new religion. It is not preached to you. You discover it. So we will only help people to discover the Vedic tradition. That is why in Hindu tradition, there is no conversion. We will help people to discover Vedic tradition.

So, I am only supporting you to discover. So do not have any conflict. Have both hand in hand and enjoy the best things. No need to carry guilt. At some time what is more useful for you will stand with you and what is not will automatically merge into the other one. Your Hebrew prayer may merge simply into the morning chanting or your morning chanting may merge simply into the Hebrew prayer. And even if they don’t merge and they are standing individually and supporting you, perfectly alright. Nothing wrong! What is wrong? Nothing is wrong!

I tell you very clearly. I have so much of love for Buddha and Mahaveera. So many masters even Islam Masters, Sufi Masters, I have so much of love and respect for all of them. I read many of their books not just to come and blabber and repeat in the discourses. No. As my personal enjoyment, personally I enjoy their words, their life, their teachings, their expressions.

So many Christian Masters have contributed to me. Thomas Kempis, St. Francis of Assisi. Still I have so much of love for St. Francis of Assisi and Thomas Kempis. There is a beautiful book “Practicing the presence of God” by Brother Lawrence. I tell you I would have read that book atleast 50 times. “The imitation of Christ” that is by Thomas Kempis. But both the books I used to read, even the “Imitation of Christ”. Both books have given me lot of inspiration and encouragement. And the same way the letters of St. Francis of Assisi. The book title is “Go Forward”. There are two books. One more book “Go Forward”, by a sadhu of Ramakrishna Order – Swami Premeshananda. His letters, they also give the same tile “Go Forward”. And the St. Francis of Assisi, his compilation of his letters is also called “Go Forward”. That was the book I always used to keep next to my bed and read.

I have been inspired, encouraged by many spiritual, religious leaders, masters from all traditions. Let it be on record. Let the history not be distorted or changed by my next generation disciples, because of their vested interest to promote the Vedic tradition. I stand for Vedic tradition. I stand with Vedic tradition. I stand by Vedic tradition. No doubt. But I wanted this to be on record; I was also helped, supported, inspired, encouraged by many religious and spiritual leaders from many other traditions.

So I tell you. No conversion. Only transformation! Support human beings to discover whatever you discovered, whatever you experienced.

One of the biggest problems India is facing is religious conversion and persecution of the majorities. Yesterday Supreme Court has taken Somoto Cognizance of 78 pilgrims dying in Amarnath, within few days of the Pilgrim path opened. Last year the whole year the whole season of pilgrimage only 82 people died. This year already 78 people within few days. Supreme court has taken a somoto cognizance and they asked the Central Govt and State Govt of Jammu Kashmir and Amarnathiji Shrine Board – the Authorities to come and explain. Death toll is actually 83 not 82, sorry 83. Media reports are saying “These guys don’t even bother to create basic amenities.

China seems to be much better in taking care of Kailash Yatris than Jammu Kashmir Govt taking care of Amarnath Yatris, because they provide more facilities and safe trip. Even Kailash so many people don’t die. Such beautiful infrastructure is created. I am taking pilgrim Yatris to Kailash but I am afraid to take people to amaranth. Still I have not taken people to Amarnath. It is inside India. These guys don’t care.

Hindus need to tell we are international minorities. See. Now it is time whole world is one country. So, we will have to again and again remind the world’; we are international minorities being persecuted everywhere, unattended everywhere. Common, there is so much of money. Hindus pour for the religious traditions and religious rituals. Just my native town temple Arunachala Temple that income is more than enough to make a 4 lane road to Amarnath. One year income is enough. But every state it is really painful to see so many pilgrims dying in Amarnath and Supremen court has to take Sumoto Cognizance to save the pilgrims. I immediately donated Rs.10 Lakhs to Hindu Helpline to save Amarnath Yatris, as our humble contribution. The VHP has taken up the job of setting up a private Hindu helpline to save the lives of the pilgrims and we are all also going to give more.

We will be continuously giving more money. Of course I am not going to touch the money which I allotted to Kailash. That is only for Kailashnath.

But there is so much money. We Hindus are very religious people. There is so much money sitting in our hand to promote our tradition and to support the people who are practicing our tradition. It is much worse than China Govt. I was shocked when China Govt did not accept. Of course they have their own procedures. They do not want to accept any donations from outside or Doctors from outside. But what about Amarnath? Why can’t they just save the lives of the people who go to this Amarnath Temple?

People have to become aware, whatever religion they may be, but these basic things should be provided for every person, who takes up the religious pilgrimage.

May be when I come back from Kailash, I may go and stay in Amarnath for a week just to do social service. Not as an organized trip. Just to do social service to take care of people and give medical help, medical support and really wanted to go and take care of the Amarnath yatris.

And I also tell you guys from next year I will surely take you guys to Amarnath. We will go to Amarnath also. We will go to Kailash and Amarnath also, because I wanted to make sure that we put our effort to support the Yatris of Amarnath. 83 people dying in Cardiac arrest. Or I can say safely allowed to die. Made to die, that is the right word. I will use; “allowed to die and made to die”. Should not have happened.

Anyhow I started with religious conversion and went all around upto Amarnath and came back. Alright. Let us have just Amarnathji darshan . You have come all the way. This is his cave where he sits in Tapas. Can you show the Amarnathji? This is a small deity worshipped there.

(A Shivalinga formed out of Ice is shown here). Yes. Now you can see Mahadeva. Great!

Anyhow, don’t bother. Have both, enjoy both. After all, religions or spiritual traditions are created for you to grow and transform yourself.

Q: In yesterday’s Satsang, you spoke about the extraordinary characterization and truthful representation of the characters in the serial “Devon ke dev Mahadev’. Can you speak more about this, Swamiji? Also, whatever is shown in the serial, how much of it is philosophically true?

A: It is a nice question. Please understand, bringing a methodical story to life is not a joke. If I put all my intelligence, philosophical strength, understanding, all my abilities and try to do a serial on Shiva, it will not be better than Devon Ke Dev. I tell you, they are doing best job. It is amazing job they are doing. There are lot of subtle points. When Devi assumes human body, what happens, there are so many subtle points, philosophical points. They are presenting so beautifully. They are neither missing the philosophical thread, nor missing the story line and making it so alive.

I tell you, in ISCON, they give you so many movies related to Krishna with English sub-titles. I tell you all our devotees should watch Devon Ke Dev with English sub-titles. It is the best thing they are doing to the whole Vedic tradition. The best thing they are doing to the whole Vedic tradition. See, they are able to make the whole thing alive in front of you. And even those people who are acting, they have put so much of effort into the whole thing to present to be honest and truthful to the original tradition. See, one of the worst things happened to the Hindu Mythology is, even the word ‘mythology’ is wrong, ‘Hindu Puranas’ is, it was understood by the Western angle through the western historians eyes, constantly we are being disrespected, abused, blamed saying they don’t have a meaning, they are just fantasies and all that. Maxmuller translated Upanishads just to prove there is nothing in Upanishads, he writes in his letter.

But till 90’s all our Indology Scholars in India are all nothing but followers of Maxmuller. It is just last 10 years a new awakening has happened when the Sanskrit knowledge has started spreading all over the world. We were awakened to the truth. Maxmullerians cannot represent the Vedic tradition to its truth in true form with true respect.

I tell you, Devon Ke Dev is a ripple effect of that awakening. The Purana is beautifully presented. Purana is the history written with the philosophical explanations. History with philosophical foot notes is Purana. So, Devon Ke Dev people, the producers, the directors and story writers the whole team is really true to the concept of Purana. Purana is not just history. Purana is history with the understanding of philosophy. Incidents recorded with the big picture of philosophical understanding. With the understanding of the big picture when incidents are recorded, that is called Purana. If the facts are recorded like everyday news paper, it is called history.

We, Indians, know only how to write Puranas, we are not newspaper guys.

Devon Ke Dev is really doing honest and true service to the Vedic tradition. I don’t see even a trace of Maxmullerism in Devon Ke Dev. They are truly, honestly reviving. Especially the people who are supporting, their philosophical team Devdatt Bhatnaik what a beautiful job they are doing. I wanted to specially mention his name: Devdatt Bhatnaik for doing amazing research and supporting.

The whole serial is presented in such a beautiful way, all the concepts of an incarnation, why even an Incarnation needs Tapas, everything is so beautifully presented to a common man. So many questions you guys ask me: “ Swamiji, you are an incarnation, why did you need to do Tapas?” Parvati is an incarnation. She is doing Tapas. All these difficult questions, they are presenting it so beautifully to the whole mass. That is the beauty. Visually they are able to present. And I recommend everybody to enjoy it.

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